“This is the struggle of Russia and USA”
Interview with Shant Harutyunyan
– What is your opinion about the decision of Hungary to extradite Azeri Rafil Safarov to Azerbaijan?
– As long as I know there is a law on extradition in Hungary and they have done this in the framework of their law and for them Safarov is considered a regular murderer, who has been extradited in the framework of the law, regardless of the fact that he is labeled as a special case there. That is nothing for Hungary. Safarov is a criminal who has been returned to Azerbaijan in the framework of law. Hungary could have had 10 Azeri criminals and all of those could be extradited. In this case, what’s important is the behavior of Aliyev. If Safarov is Alieyv’s national hero than no country can keep Safarov. Azerbaijan has proven this. Only Armenians can live their national heroes with the enemy or as a hostage. For normal nations their national heroes cannot appear in jail.
There has been time when the Armenian state has also been attempting to do so. Varuzhan Karapetyan, the terrorists of ASALA, who were sentences life, were released and brought from France. Now the Azerbaijani government is doing the same thing. In our mindset the boys of ASALA were considered heroes and similarly the Azerbaijani hero cannot be considered the same way for us. As an emotional Armenian I can say that they all – Aliyev and Safarov, are our enemies. We have known this from early ages. But as a human being we should understand that all the nations will attempt to release their national heroes. The US government has also done numerous similar actions.
A US embassy employee was a hostage in Iran. Reagan has ordered the secret service to bring the American citizen home. We were all raised that Azerbaijan is our enemy and we all know that. It’s in our system. But the problem is not here. In my opinion, this is a part of a serious geopolitical process. If we look at this matter with the eyes of Turks, then as I said they have saved their hero. There is nothing to analyze here. But some are trying to turn this into a political scandal. Armenia and the society are not adequate why they are attempting to turn this into a scandal. Perhaps the most adequate was the President of Armenia Serzh Sargsyan, who in his speech expressed his rough stance on the matter. But it was belated as well. Here there is a very important matter. Regardless of whether connected with Safarov or other matters Serzh Sargsyan cannot make the international community and our enemies respect our country. Our state hasn’t done this. If the nation doesn’t respect its state then they must be frightened.
– During session of the RA National Security Council Serzh Sargsyan also stated that the authorities of Hungary cut a deal with Azerbaijan. He also stated that indeed the government of Hungary violated the agreement because in all negotiations they excluded the possibility of Safarov’s extradition. What can you say about this?
– How were these negotiations – in the framework of the law, did they sign an agreement to claim that Hungary had violated those? If it was verbal and someone from Armenia went there and said this is not a regular murder and this it is a case of racism, the Hungarian official might have said yes we understand how serious the case is and we’ll make sure the culprit receives his worthy punishment, this cannot be reliable, because this official might have been dead within eight years. This cannot be a serious agreement. But if there was really an agreement then I should say that Serzh Sargsyan has appeared in a quite uncomfortable situation because as I said we were not able to make others respect our country and our sovereignty.
– Nonetheless, don’t you think that Hungarian government has cut a deal with the Azerbaijani government?
– This is more like a result of political processes because the Hungarians very well know what kind of murder it was and they excellently knew that once extradited, Safarov would have been released by the Azerbaijani government. But the interesting thing is that Aliyev recognized Safarov as a national hero and thus limited any country’s opportunities to judge its national hero. The US wouldn’t let its national hero to stay in a foreign jail. If Armenia had any kind of influence on Hungary the latter might have refused to extradite fearing that it might have some consequences from Armenia. But we know it is not so.
– What consequences can the freezing of relations with Hungary have on Armenia?
– None. If Hungary had a serious attitude to Armenia, it would have offered Aliyev a thousand options. For example, they would have made Aliyev not to release Safarov after extradition. They would demand that the criminal stays in the prison for a few years and then write in six months that he’s sick and that he died in jail. They would demand such guarantees before the extradition. But as Armenia as a state doesn’t receive respect or fear from others they didn’t care about the consequences. I am repeating one more time there is global politics. In the near future presidential elections will take place in Azerbaijan and Aliyev should try to have a trump card to his people. And if there is a serious international process then it cannot take place with the US or Russia, which might contain lots of threats. This may even turn into an Armenian-Azerbaijani armed collision. Someone may get there and kill a Turk. Everything is possible. Without the permission of the co-chairs of Minsk Group nothing like this would have happened.
– The Azerbaijani websites would write that a classmate of Putin, an Azeri businessman also conduced to the extradition of Safarov. In your opinion, to what extent could Russia have influence on this process?
– Regardless of this, I also believe that the US, Russia and France were at least aware of this deal. I think the best step was chosen by the US, which demanded that Hungary provide explanations. But in a different sense, the US should have responded to this as long as it is considered a world leader. Secondly, it is a member of the Minsk Group. And last but not least, it is a strategic partner with Armenia.
Russia should have not only made a statement but to make sure that this deal failed. I am sure that there might be about 80% of Russian KGB agents in Hungary with the help of whom Russia could have easily failed this deal. Here we should review the interests of each state. Russia has to protect the interests of Armenia because we are strategic allies. If Russia hadn’t done it then they must have been interested in the extradition. Moreover, it has personally participated in it. Nobody can convince me that this deal was cut without the agreement of Russia. Putin gave his permission to Aliyev.
– The Justice Minister of Armenia wrote a letter to the Justice Minster of Hungary and condemned their decision. He advised the Hungarian government to resign. Can this frighten Hungary?
– Of course not. Back then Aliyev said, “Boys, if any of you goes abroad and during military trainings kills an Armenian he will become a national hero for us. The we will see if we can release you or not.” As Armenians don’t know how to value their heroes they think that other nations are like them as well. Back then they should have sent a note by blaming Azerbaijan to make a murderer a hero. Azerbaijan is not in a glorious plight as a country either. But if Hungary signifies a devastated state like Azerbaijan more than Armenia it means that Azerbaijan won the war. It means that Armenia doesn’t exist as a state in the international community.
– On these days many posts are made on social networks that the extradition will create vengeance among Armenians. Do you predict such developments?
– Do you believe that we have someone who will go find him and kill him? There are many such wishes among Armenians – have the Genocide recognized, have an Armenian land stretched from sea to sea. Many Armenians still blame the Armenian terrorists, who killed Turks for the Genocide.
– Do you think that the ones, who throw eggs and tomatoes on the building of the Hungarian embassy, will dare to make a revenge?
– Here only Serzh Sargsyan behaved in the most normal way in the process with his harsh statements. But he wouldn’t have been able to make such statements without agreeing with other more powerful states. Such a speech showed that the matter has deeper roots. This is the conflict of interests of Russia and the west. By doing so, Putin has tried to morally destroy Sargsyan in order to bring his own political to power in Armenia. Or he wants to make him understand that if we gets his permission to come back to power he should do whatever Putin says. This was Putin’s intention and I think he cut a similar deal with Aliyev. But the US is with Armenia and wouldn’t let Russia dictate its demands. Sargsyan’s candidacy is more beneficial for the US. And the latter lets Sargsyan to make such harsh statements. Let’s not also forget Robert Kocharyan’s factor. This is the struggle of Russia and the US. By doing so, Russia lost because Sargsyan is backed by the west.
